OK. This might be controversial, but I’m just going to come out and say it because it’s how I feel.
There is a lot of speculation right now, mostly based on Nicola Sturgeon’s post-election press conference, that the SNP might be considering dropping the independence referendum. If they do that, I will be quitting the party and cutting up my membership card.
Now some might say that’s a bit extreme, but I would disagree. I could go into all the reasons it would be a perfectly reasonable response, but there’s no point in repeating things that others have already eloquently pointed out. Instead I’ll just direct readers to the relevant articles by Wings, CommonSpace, and ScotGoesPop. The latter two are more to the point.
There are a couple of things I’d like to add though. First of all, are we still doing parliamentary democracy in this country? I ask ‘cos last time I checked, in a parliamentary democracy, the party that takes the most seats is the winner, and has a mandate to carry out what they said they would. The party that loses (and pretty bloody decisively in this case), doesn’t get to dictate shit to the party that won.
The Tories in Scotland don’t get to demand a damn thing just because Shouty Ruth McFuckinshoutyface says so. They lost, hands down. In any other country in the world they’d shut the hell up and accept the will of the people. But not in Scotland, oh no. Apparently uniquely in Scotland, the losers get to demand things of the winners. It’s complete bullshit and the SNP should be saying so. I expect the right-wing, unionist media to peddle that crap, but I don’t expect the SNP to meekly bow to it.
Secondly, is the SNP not the party of independence anymore? During this election campaign I’ve heard lot’s about being “stronger for Scotland”. I’ve heard lot’s about devolved issues that have bugger all to do with a UK election, lot’s about a strong voice for Scotland, lot’s about the SNP’s track record. I’ve even heard some about the referendum, but you know what I’ve heard bugger all about? Independence itself.
It’s time the SNP grabbed the bull by the horns, grabbed their own bollocks, and started pushing independence. Corbyn has done so well in this election because he has a vision, and he pushes his vision with pride, eloquence and old-fashioned backbone. Corbyn doesn’t give two shits about the constant media abuse and smearing. Corbyn doesn’t stoop to their level. He just gets on with pushing his vision, and people have been inspired by it.
This has to be a turning point for the SNP. They cannot come out and say they are dropping the referendum. If they do that, they may as well just disband and call it a day, because it will be.
Instead, they need to come out fighting. They need to demand that they have a mandate for the referendum and bloody well fight for it. They need to tell McShoutyface to shut the hell up ‘cos she lost. But most importantly of all, they need a plan for selling independence as a vision. They need to sell a vision of an independent Scotland with a passion that will grab people’s imaginations and win voters and support for indy back.
There’s more they need to do obviously, but that would be a good start.
If on the other hand, Nicola Sturgeon declares at her next press conference that, on reflection, they’re dropping ScotRef, or even kicking it into the long grass; well then it’s game over as far as I’m concerned. They will have bent over and capitulated to the losers, because they lost some seats, many of which were bound to be lost anyway (no party anywhere in the world has 95% of seats, except China and North Korea).
If they do that they will look pathetically weak, and they will look like they are putting party before country. That’s not a party I will want to be part of anymore, and I suspect I won’t be the only one.
I very, very much hope I am still able to be a member after I next hear Nicola speak.
16 thoughts on “If the SNP drop ScotRef, it’s game over for me.”
The SNP won’t drop indyref2. Its bullshit made up by a biased press based on wishful thinking.
You can join the independence minded people like me that would never join the SNP.
Holding a referendum we don’t win would be fatal. I don’t understand the impatience. Would we win it in 2018 or 2019? Utterly unclear and dependent on events elsewhere. Nicola’s call was predicated on a Theresa May government pushing through a hard Brexit. Since then we’ve had an election that has trashed the government and thrown the whole idea of a hard Brexit into the air. You await the moment when you know you will win. This is not it.
Hmmm, but there’s a fatal problem with the “long game/wait” approach now isn’t there? The problem is that if these vote shares are repeated at the next Holyrood election in 2021, and there’s no reason to believe they won’t be, the Holyrood pro-independence majority is a gonner. We would have a pro-union majority in the Scottish Parliament. Any indyref would be off the table until 2026 at the earliest (assuming we could regain an independence majority then, which is of course not guaranteed). So how long are you willing to wait? A decade? Two? If we are going to wait that long anyway, we might as well have a crack at it now. I don’t see what we have to lose.
Nichola need do nothing. A formal request has gone from the Scottish Parliament to T May requesting a referendum as the SP is constitutionally obliged to do. It is TM who must take the next step and formally reply. If her reply is NO, which I am 99.99% sure it will be, it will then be for the Scottish Parliament and nation to decide what WE are going to do about it.
Let May reply first and the whole dynamic has changed.
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Don’t you think that they might be dropping it for the time being because they don’t think we can win it? Losing again would really set the whole thing back for years to come and they may not feel it’s worth the risk. Don’t get me wrong – I’m desperate for independence and, as an oldie, getting worried about never seeing it happen but surely timing is crucial.
See my reply to kininvie above. Basically, if we don’t go for it in this (Scottish) parliament, it’s off the table for at least ten years anyway.
Great article. Your not the only one that will be cutting up a membership card. If I don’t see some back bone from the snp in the next week I’m off. If they loose the momentum now, they will never get it back. Scotland needs hope our people are hurting, austerity, pip, child poverty and pensions are now taking an enormous toll. The scottish government should have pointed this out to all the elctorate. Cut block grants, social security system still in Westminster hands as with many other items is killing this country. I never heard any of that during the election. We want independence for these reasons . Do you think the no voters actually know why they don’t want Indy and is there assertions valid. Why were we not fighting the anti Indy with the pro Indy if that’s what the election was going to be fought on. Indy was never mentioned by the snp, it’s as if it’s a dirty word. If we can’t combat anti Indy rhetoric with pro Indy statments and promotion then the fight is already dead.
Things really need to change and our government and the snp need to up their game. The time is now and a referendum should be held just before we leave the eu or there is no point to the snp.
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In my humble opinion the problem is not the fighting your corner for independence, it is showing and demonstrating that you have a credible, well thought out radical programme for every day governance in Holyrood. The SNP have simply not been radical enough to capture the imagination of the electorate in the way that Corbyn has down south.
For example, the debate on Fracking has dragged on now for years and those who have demanded a baby have been fobbed off by feeble excuses. In transport, why have a Dutch company been allowed to run our railways? We should be saying that once the contract expires we are taking the rail industry into public ownership. Why have the demand for the deregulation of the buses been continually body swerved? Surely nothing to do with the Soutar connection? I could go on regarding education, social care and the NHS but point is that without such a radical rallying call you cannot expect voters to just totter along to the polling stations because it’s the right thing to do.
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Yes, I would have to agree with you Martin. I think two things need to happen now in order to change things up and reinvigorate both the SNP and the independence movement. Firstly, the SNP need to stop treating the word “independence” as if they’re scared of it, and start making a case for it again. Secondly, as you have said, they need a more radical and progressive approach. The Corbyn surge shows that there is clearly a public appetite for it.
As a realist I know that no government can deliver the funding required for the NHS, for education, for a welfare state, and that there are things outside their control which will never be fixed, regardless of funding. But those failings are now being used to make the case against independence. The argument goes that if the SNP cannot run X, Y or Z, then Scotland cannot function as an independent country. That’s a ludicrous argument, but it’s gaining traction. Repeated ad nauseum by the leaders of the unionist parties, it’s repeated by their members and by the media until it gains traction in the public mind: If Davidson, Dugdale, Rennie and the BBC are all saying that education is in crisis then it must be.
jester1970, I agree with most of what you say, except for your opening line: “As a realist I know that no government can deliver the funding required for the NHS, for education, for a welfare state, and that there are things outside their control which will never be fixed, regardless of funding.”
That is simply not true. That’s not being a realist. That’s being a Tory. The Tories have been pushing that line for almost 40 years, safe in the knowledge that 95% of people in this country don’t get taught economics at school, and will believe it, because they think the economy of a nation works like a household budget. It doesn’t. Government could easily fund all of those things extremely well, and the country would profit handsomely if it did. The decision not to do so is an ideological one, not an economic one. I strongly recommend having a good look around “Another Angry Voice” (link on my home page) for more info. He has loads of info on economics and misconceptions, written in an easy to follow way.
The SNP are NOT NEARLY as BALLSY as the unionfuckerists.
Well they had better get it sorted , and SHARPISH.
You make some excellent points about McShoutyface. Otherwise take a chill pill. 😉
By denying independence, by playing it down to appeal to floating unionist voters, she demoralised and disincentivised the huge number of people who flooded to the SNP from Yes. By saying that we may vote on independence in 2019 or 2020 many people will say, ‘you know what, the SNP don’t need my vote at the moment, they have huge majorities and I’ll come back out and vote when it matters’. And hundreds of thousands of votes go down the pan. Way to go Nicola.
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